34. Expand Your Horizon: Maintaining a Growth Mindset

Przemek Lubecki (00:00):

I think most lawyers, where they lack is having that growth mindset. They get into a rut, they do whatever they’ve been doing. They think it’s the proper way to, to do something. And they don’t learn. They stop learning at some point. And that’s where I think, if I were to pride myself on anything about myself, is that I’m constantly trying to improve, trying to do better.

Maria Monroy (00:26):

Welcome to the Tip the Scales podcast, where we discuss running and growing your law firm. I’m your host, Maria Monroy, president and co-founder of LawRank. Today, I am live with Przemek Lubecki. Today, we discussed the methods he uses to maintain a growth mindset in both his personal and professional life. We talk about when he was held in contempt, some of his wellness routines and how competitive shooting has taught him some skills that transfer to the courtroom. Well, thank you so much for joining me today. I appreciate it.

Przemek Lubecki (00:57):

Oh, thanks for talking to me.

Maria Monroy (00:58):

You’re one of the first interviews that I’m doing — not the first one, but one of the only ones — where I don’t know the person well. So you should feel special.

Przemek Lubecki (01:07):

Sure, I do.

Maria Monroy (01:09):

Yeah. All right. So tell us your name, like, your title, what firm you work at.

Przemek Lubecki (01:14):

Sure. Uh, so I’m Przemek Lubecki. I work at Morris Bart’s office in New Orleans. Uh, been there now for — it’s hard to believe, but going on, this will be my eleventh year.

Maria Monroy (01:25):

Wow. Congrats.

Przemek Lubecki (01:26):

Yeah. Thanks. Um, you know, I started practicing in Chicago. Um, moved to New Orleans after seven and a half years of practice up there, and been there ever since.

Maria Monroy (01:39):

That’s amazing. How many trials have you had?

Przemek Lubecki (01:43):

So, it’s a crazy number,

Maria Monroy (01:44):

I know.

Przemek Lubecki (01:45):

Because of, because of where I practiced. So, I mean, I’ve got over a hundred, probably 120, 130. Uh, I stopped — I never counted at my old firm, but eventually when I added up sort of some of the jury verdict reporters and whatever else I had, it’s well over, uh, well over a hundred.

Maria Monroy (02:03):

That’s crazy. And what have you learned?

Przemek Lubecki (02:06):

Oh, man. Uh, well, you know, what I learned is I think the secret, to some extent, is in the reps that you do, like with anything else. Um, I do think that a defense case is a far easier case to try every time, no matter how complicated the case is, than even, I think, the simplest plaintiff’s case. Uh, it took me a long time, uh, after switching over to the plaintiff’s side to sort of figure out the framework for how to try a plaintiff’s case. ‘Cause I couldn’t just necessarily reverse-engineer what I was doing on the defense side.

Maria Monroy (02:44):

How long did you do defense?

Przemek Lubecki (02:46):

Seven and a half years in Chicago. Um, and then, you know, and that’s where the great majority of my trial experience was, was doing defense work. Since I’ve switched to the plaintiff’s side, you know, I’ve — the volume of trial work is just a lot less. I think that’s just the nature of the beast in Louisiana. And also I think the, the cases are more complicated to try. If you’re trying a lot of cases all the time as a plaintiff’s lawyer, unless you’re sort of specialized in that and have a firm that’s keyed up towards that, it’s difficult to do that.

Maria Monroy (03:20):

So, repetition.

Przemek Lubecki (03:22):

Yeah, repetition. I think with anything, uh, even, you know, like right now we’re in Vegas.

Maria Monroy (03:24):

Yeah.

Przemek Lubecki (03:25):

And we’re, I’m doing training with Dan Ambrose and TLU, and that’s a big message, I think, this weekend is just getting the reps out there. Uh, there’s no substitute for, for putting in the work.

Maria Monroy (03:38):

It’s like the gym.

Przemek Lubecki (03:40):

A hundred percent like the gym, like sport, like, like anything.

Maria Monroy (03:43):

But I think it can be so motivating for a brand-new lawyer that does want to try cases to hear, like, “Hey, it takes time to be really good at this.” Instead of like, maybe they go, they try a case it, you know, it doesn’t go well. And now they’re so unmotivated to try again.

Przemek Lubecki (04:01):

A hundred percent. Uh, there’s that saying that, you know, some people have twenty years of experience, and some people have one year of experience twenty times. So while experience is important, I think having a growth mindset, keeping yopour sort of feelers open for who is actually doing good work, um, is more important than, I think, whatever your experiential background is in terms of just, just years alone or even number of trials. Um, I think most lawyers, where they lack is having that growth mindset. They get into a rut, they do whatever they’ve been doing. They think it’s the proper way to, to do something. And they don’t learn. They stop learning at some point. And that’s where I think, if I were to pride myself on anything about myself, it’s that I’m constantly trying to improve, trying to do better. Whether it’s family stuff, whether it’s workout, whether it’s trial work, anything. You’ve always kind of got to be looking to expand the horizon.

Maria Monroy (05:05):

Absolutely. No, I totally agree with you. What are some of the things that you do to learn? So I know right now you’re taking Dan’s, what is it? Connection course?

Przemek Lubecki (05:14):

Yeah, Dan’s connection course. I mean, we’re covering over three, four days. We’re covering, uh, voir dir, openings, and cross examination. Uh, it is a completely sort of different perspective ’cause it’s not necessarily a focus on the words that are said during any of those activities.

Maria Monroy (05:32):

Yeah.

Przemek Lubecki (05:33):

Uh, but rather the feeling and message you convey non-verbally, uh, to the jury. And so it is a completely — I don’t want to say higher level, but it’s a, it’s a completely different angle in trial. And I think especially for somebody who already has a good level of trial experience it, it ha— You have to have a, I think a place to put those pieces that, that Dan is teaching. And so I’m, I’m getting a ton out of it.

Maria Monroy (06:04):

That’s amazing. What other things do you do to learn, and what have you done in the past, what, eighteen years to learn and to grow?

Przemek Lubecki (06:12):

Well, I mean, I think there’s no substitute for just the reps of actual trial and just forcing yourself to do it. I mean, my, the first — The firm I was with in Chicago, uh, Parillo, Weiss, & O’Halloran, and, you know, they prided themselves on being a trial firm. I mean, they tried more cases in Illinois than any other firm, any, every single year. And so yeah, I tried my first jury trial the day after I was sworn in, and it was a BS, small, little property damage only case with a six-man jury for, for those cases. And while it seems, it seemed annoying at the time to have to be putting in work on an inconsequential case, a low dollar amount, nobody cared about what the result was except me, obviously, um —

Maria Monroy (06:57):

Mm-hmm.

Przemek Lubecki (06:58):

But it was still, you got a rep of picking a jury, a rep of opening, a rep of cross-examining somebody, a rep of closing, et cetera, under stress. So you have that, um, you get stress inoculated to some degree —

Maria Monroy (07:13):

Mm-hmm.

Przemek Lubecki (07:14):

Doing that. And the more you do it, the more it becomes second nature. Um, though there’s still times where, you know, you’re not — when in Chicago, if I wasn’t on trial for three weeks or a month, I would feel the rust next time I’m out there, right? Whereas now I’m trying to case once a year, if I’m lucky. In 2022, I tried two cases and that was kind of a —

Maria Monroy (07:36):

A big deal.

Przemek Lubecki (07:37):

A busy, a busy year. Right?

Maria Monroy (07:38):

Yeah.

Przemek Lubecki (07:39):

Um, and so I have to do other work on my own to stay relevant, to not be rusty. Otherwise, I would almost need to say, “Hey, I need a tuneup trial to be able to try a real case.” And, and that’s the — The mode of the work and the volume that we have, it just doesn’t work like that. So you have to, I think, be searching for opportunities like this, uh, to do the work, as well as maybe just working on your own, which is what I’m planning on doing at, leaving here, uh, to, to get the relevant repetition of the material to be able to stay relatively sharp.

Maria Monroy (08:17):

And you also go to conferences, right?

Przemek Lubecki (08:20):

I do. Yeah. So, um, when I first moved to the plaintiff’s side, really, I was, like — When I tell you I was looking for a framework within which to try a case. I mean, I was searching, because I could not just reverse-engineer a burden of proof closing argument to fit all the pieces that I had to sort of fill, to stay consistent and not be talking out of both sides of my mouth to the jury.

Maria Monroy (08:44):

Mm-hmm. .

Przemek Lubecki (08:45):

And so the first of that was, was Don Keenan and Reptile. And I think it’s, it’s tremendous. Uh, it gave me a framework within which to structure the trial, what to focus on, uh, and how to stay consistent to the jury. Uh, the TLU conferences, I think, are more nuanced than that. They give you a lot of different perspectives from a lot of different lawyers who are trying cases in different states, you know, different jurisdictions, um, and have different styles. And so you can kind of hunt and peck for the pieces that you feel are missing in, in what you’re doing or people that you can essentially just learn from and, and try to, try to copy a little bit.

Maria Monroy (09:33):

Now what have you learned working at such a large firm? How big is Morris Bart?

Przemek Lubecki (09:38):

Uh, you know, I think — You know, we’re in Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama, and I think in total, I know we have over a hundred lawyers.

Maria Monroy (09:46):

Yeah, that’s big.

Przemek Lubecki (09:46):

It’s huge. I mean, for a plaintiff’s shop.

Maria Monroy (09:47):

Yeah.

Przemek Lubecki (09:48):

I don’t know that they get that big.

Maria Monroy (09:50):

Yeah.

Przemek Lubecki (09:51):

Other than — I think the good thing about a firm — There’s one person in charge. And so that’s — Essentially, there’s no in-fighting and there’s no people, you know, fleeing and stealing files and clients and, and things of that nature. So it’s been a recipe for success for him, for sure.

Maria Monroy (10:07):

And what have you learned working there? I mean, eleven years, watching —

Przemek Lubecki (10:11):

Uh, well, you know — So what I learned, um — You know, obviously I’ve grown a lot, I think, as a lawyer, switching sides and, and doing, uh, you know, trials now on, on the plaintiff’s side. Um, as far as, from what I’ve learned from working at a high-volume firm —

Maria Monroy (10:27):

Yes.

Przemek Lubecki (10:28):

Is that you don’t necessarily have to be trying cases to be financially successful. Uh, there’s a lot more that happens pre-suit than I was ever aware of working on the defense side. And I know that there’s many firms across the country that are, I mean, juggernauts, uh, in the area, and they’re handling a lot of volume and settling, like, cases, uh, pre-suit. Um, what I learned, as far as my practice, where I’m not handling pre-suit stuff, is, uh, there is a way I think to handle some volume, maybe more cases than somebody else would consider a healthy amount of cases to handle. But you have to have tremendous assistance. You have to have some, some framework to catch your mistakes, uh, so that you can focus on what’s important at the time. Not only be responding to urgent fires that are sort of unimportant to the actual case, but they might be important that day, whether to the client or to the firm or to some other, to the other side or, or what have you.

Maria Monroy (11:42):

I mean, you guys must have some crazy processes and procedures. I have to assume. I don’t know.

Przemek Lubecki (11:47):

We do. Yeah. I mean, there’s, uh, there’s essentially one person who is in charge of managing the lawyers, and he has sort of lieutenants into various, uh, areas of the firm that report to him. And there’s a computer system that checks and, uh, reports, I guess creates reports, uh, for those individuals, uh, at the firm.

Maria Monroy (12:11):

Nice. Now let’s talk about your little hobby.

Przemek Lubecki (12:15):

Yeah. So, uh, my hobby is, uh, competitive shooting. And so —

Maria Monroy (12:20):

Competitive.

Przemek Lubecki (12:21):

Yeah.

Maria Monroy (12:23):

So why, what are you shooting? I mean, I know I’m assuming live animals, but what?

Przemek Lubecki (12:25):

No, no, no. It’s the — I don’t hunt.

Maria Monroy (12:26):

Oh, you’re not hunting?

Przemek Lubecki (12:27):

I don’t hunt. No, no, no.

Maria Monroy (12:28):

Why did, why did that come to my mind?

Przemek Lubecki (12:30):

Uh, I think most people think associate, uh, shooting with hunting maybe.

Maria Monroy (12:34):

So what are you shooting?

Przemek Lubecki (12:36):

Uh, targets, but it’s action shooting. So it’s, um —

Maria Monroy (12:38):

But are they still or are they moving?

Przemek Lubecki (12:40):

Some are moving, some are — Most are stationary. Um, and so, I mean, I could, I could show you a video or videos later on, but it’s — There’s different disciplines that I shoot.

Maria Monroy (12:51):

Mm-hmm.

Przemek Lubecki (12:52):

So when I moved, again from Chicago to New Orleans, you know, Chicago was a very prohibitive, uh, city and state at the time for firearms. And so when I moved to New Orleans, there were a lot of people coming back sort of from GWOT and who had a lot of experience in firearms. And so I got some training, and then one thing led to another, and I decided to just, “Hey, I’m going to start doing some competitions around this, uh, discipline.” And so, in a weird way, it, I think once you get good at something, you can get good at anything. And I think the, um, some of the same, like, processes and truths about what you’re doing translate to other aspects of your life. And so, like with shooting, you know, if you’re process-focused, if you’re, uh, focused on putting in the work, the results, the results take care of themselves, and it’s no different at work.

Maria Monroy (13:52):

Interesting. I still — Okay, but what does competitive mean? Like —

Przemek Lubecki (13:56):

Well, so, I mean, so every, uh, weekend there’s a competition.

Maria Monroy (14:00):

Every weekend?

Przemek Lubecki (14:01):

Every weekend.

Maria Monroy (14:03):

What do you win if you win?

Przemek Lubecki (14:03):

So it’s, uh, it’s USPSA, United States Practical Shooting Association. It’s a national organization. Uh, the other sport that I shoot is called the Tactical Games, which is a two-gun sport, which is rifle, pistol with a very, um, like, a physical, heavy, um, physical component, whether running, lifting, whatever else. Uh, some people call it, like, CrossFit with guns, essentially, right?

Maria Monroy (14:29):

Really?

Przemek Lubecki (14:30):

Yeah.

Maria Monroy (14:31):

Huh. I’d never heard about this.

Przemek Lubecki (14:31):

Yeah, it’s, so, uh — Tactical Games was created by a guy who spent twenty years, or twenty, I think twenty-seven years, uh, in the SF community. Like Special Forces Delta.

Maria Monroy (14:43):

Mm-hmm. .

Przemek Lubecki (14:44):

And he created a sport to sort of mimic some of the training that those guys, um, are doing. And he — I started shooting it in 2018 and been doing that ever since.

Maria Monroy (14:56):

That’s so cool. And what have you noticed, like, the overlap between should shooting and being a trial lawyer?

Przemek Lubecki (15:04):

Oh man. Um, I think the mental management aspect of it, I think is more important and, uh, is just more important than almost anything else. So for instance, um, you know, being, um — Having a strategy for, whether the competition, the stage that you’re about to shoot, uh, or the particular match. Um, having the skills, and then having the confidence. So, like, the three different spheres of the performance. Uh, and that translates to trial work. Like if you don’t have the strategy based on past experience, past performance, knowing what works, what doesn’t, what you’re good at, what you’re not good at, um, you’re not going to do as well as somebody who, who has that background, let’s say at, at a trial, right Um, the skills are things that you can work on almost independent of the actual performance of the sport itself. ‘Cause you can go out to the range, you can train, you can dry fire, you can do a lot of different stuff to improve your skillset.

Przemek Lubecki (16:15):

No different than, let’s say, me being in Vegas this week trying to work on my skillset, right? And then, uh, the confidence aspect of it is a little bit more difficult to understand. But I think, like with trial, if you are not confident in your skillset, I don’t care if you have the best facts. I don’t care if you practice the hell out of your opening or your closing. You will never perform up to the level that you earned, uh, theoretically in the practice that you’ve done, because you don’t have the right mindset or the confidence. And so with, with shooting, confidence, as I understand it, comes down to essentially your past performance predicting your future success. And I apply that to trial all the time. And where I think I have the advantage over some other lawyers is that, I mean, I’ve tried some dog shit cases, uh, as a defense attorney. And I’ve eked out what we in Chicago called not NGs — not guilty, zero verdicts, on cases that, you know, where you would think that there is no possible way of winning that. And so you can kind of go back to that backlog of the things you’ve done to say, “Listen, this isn’t so bad. I’m going to stick with what I’m doing, stick with my process. It worked five, ten, fifteen, twenty other times. It’ll work again.” And if you don’t get derailed by the, uh, particular circumstances of that one event, case, screw up whatever you’re doing, and you keep your eyes on the, on the process, the result —

Maria Monroy (18:01):

On the target.

Przemek Lubecki (18:02):

On the — Yeah, exactly. The, the result sort of takes care of itself.

Maria Monroy (18:04):

Got it. It reminded me — The whole confidence thing reminded me of My Cousin Vinny, where there’s that lawyer that would go up and would stutter —

Przemek Lubecki (18:12):

Yes.

Maria Monroy (18:13):

And so he gets fired, and he was like, “But this is the best I’ve done!”

Przemek Lubecki (18:15):

Yes.

Maria Monroy (18:16):

Or something like that.

My Cousin Vinny (18:17):
“Counselor, your statement, sir. Ladies and gentlemen of the, of, of, of, of the, uh, we, we intend to prove that the prosecution’s case is circumstantial and, and, and, and, and — That’s it? What about everything we talked about? Yeah. I get a little nervous. A little nervous? I’m getting better.”

Przemek Lubecki (18:59):

Probably the all time greatest, most true-to-life movie about trial ever. I don’t know of any movie that portrayed trial work better than My Cousin Vinny.

Maria Monroy (19:09):

Really?

Przemek Lubecki (19:10):

A hundred percent. Tell me one more other movie that’s, that’s better.

Maria Monroy (19:12):

I have watched it before, before I was in this space, and I watched it like three weeks ago, and I loved it. I was like, “I can’t believe lawyers are not posting about this on social, like, constantly.”

Przemek Lubecki (19:25):

Yes.

Maria Monroy (19:26):

Because there were so many things that you’re just, like, dying laughing.

Przemek Lubecki (19:28):

Yes.

Maria Monroy (19:30):

Right? And, like, they bring up personal injury, and then they bring up — It’s so many things that I was like, “You’ve got to be kidding me.”

Przemek Lubecki (19:35):

Well, not to mention that I think, you know, he sets stuff up, he closes on it. Uh, he doesn’t over-deliver and overstate anything. He’s, uh, uh, true to himself. He’s not, uh, pretending to be somebody that he’s not, right?

Maria Monroy (19:51):

Yeah.

Przemek Lubecki (19:52):

He’s, uh, he’s himself, and it carries the day ultimately.

Maria Monroy (19:54):

You know what was really funny? When they kept holding him in contempt.

Przemek Lubecki (19:58):

So, uh —

Maria Monroy (19:59):

Because that doesn’t really happen, right? Like how often does that happen?

Przemek Lubecki (20:02):

Well, it happened twice to me in one trial.

Maria Monroy (20:05):

No, it didn’t. Wait, in de— defense or —

Przemek Lubecki (20:08):

Defense. Uh, so my strategy has completely done a 180 as far as pissing off judges and juries from when I was a defense attorney to being a plaintiff’s lawyer.

Maria Monroy (20:20):

How long were you held in contempt for?

Przemek Lubecki (20:22):

Uh, I mean it was during the trial I got held in criminal contempt and fined money. They didn’t actually put handcuffs on me. Um, it was during — Once was during jury selection and once was during my, uh, closing argument. And so —

Maria Monroy (20:36):

What did you do?

Przemek Lubecki (20:37):

Well, so the issue in Chicago was that they would sometimes, uh — You know, they would have sub-circuit elections, and they would appoint these judges or elect judges who really had no, uh, background in trying cases. So, uh, not to point out the judge or to name names or whatever. I’m sure she’s a pleasant lady in her own personal life. But the judge I tried a case in front of in Chicago that held me in contempt had come from, like, the water department or something like that. So before she became a trial judge and assigned to a trial room, she was handling contracts and whatever else you handle as a lawyer for the, for the water department. And so I tried her first jury trial maybe two, three months before she held me in contempt. And I did not hold her in as high regard as she believed I ought to hold her, because she had no idea what she was doing.

Przemek Lubecki (21:29):

And it was apparent to everybody. And then, so I was then, a couple months, later trying a case in front of her that was, you know, a case of, to us, some consequence, it was a potential, you know, ex— over limits exposure case, et, et cetera. And so there is a very specific way in Illinois that you pick a jury. You know, they — you accept the jury in panels of four, whether back striking is or isn’t allowed. I mean, there’s all these rules that go into it. And she really had no clue what she was doing. And I wanted to see the juror cards again to see, to make my decision, or whatever it was, as to who I was going to accept or strike. And she said, ’cause I was taking too long or whatever else. She said, “Counsel, the next two words out of your mouth better be either ‘I accept,’ or ‘I strike,’ or I’m going to hold you in contempt.”And so —

Maria Monroy (22:24):

But that seems kind of fucked up.

Przemek Lubecki (22:25):

It seems, uh, completely unfair. I mean, it has a chilling effect on your ability to, to do your job. Plus I am not averse to conflict when it comes to situations like that. And so I, I sort of relish that a little bit, or I did at the time, especially when I was younger. And so, you know, I said something like, “Well, you know, now I’m — now I’m — you’re discombobulating me,” or whatever “Because you’re, you’re, you’re threatening me with, with contempt. I’m going to have to see the cards again.” And so fined me $2,000, $4,000, whatever it was.

Maria Monroy (22:58):

And who pays for that?

Przemek Lubecki (22:59):

Uh, eventually we, we appealed it. Um, and I, I’m assuming my firm paid for it.

Maria Monroy (23:06):

Were they pissed?

Przemek Lubecki (23:07):

Uh, no. The firm was actually very supportive. Uh, they were very, very supportive of lawyers.

Maria Monroy (23:15):

You must have been really young.

Przemek Lubecki (23:16):

Yeah, I was. I mean I was probably maybe four years into practice, maybe three years. Um, but the firm was awesome. I mean they definitely had my back. And so the second time was during the same exact trial where —

Maria Monroy (23:32):

Same judge?

Przemek Lubecki (23:33):

Same judge.

Maria Monroy (23:34):

No!

Przemek Lubecki (23:34):

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Maria Monroy (23:35):

She did not —

Przemek Lubecki (23:36):

Well, same trial! Same trial.

Maria Monroy (23:37):

Oh, same trial. She did not like you.

Przemek Lubecki (23:39):

She hated —

Maria Monroy (23:40):

She probably thought you were —

Przemek Lubecku (23:41):
She hated my guts, like —

Maria Monroy (23:41):

Young, like —

Przemek Lubecki (23:42):

Yes. And so she, because I had tried that case, case in, in front of her a couple months before, her first jury trial, where she was a complete neophyte and not good at her job, I think she remembered me. And so she had it out for me, I think, during —

Maria Monroy (23:56):

She was projecting.

Przemek Lubecki (23:57):

During this trial. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yeah. Uh, and so when this airs, if it ever comes back, she can reach out to me. We can talk.

Maria Monroy (24:04):

She can apologize. .

Przemek Lubecki (24:05):

Yeah. I’m not apologizing.

Maria Monroy (24:07):

No, she can apologize.

Przemek Lubecki (24:08):

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But the, the second time was during my closing argument. I was arguing whatever I was arguing, but I mean, it’s my case. I decide what’s relevant or not. But she would make the sua sponte objections during my closing argument. The other attorney’s just sitting there, not objecting. He seems to be fine with whatever I’m saying. And she’s making these objections. And so at some point I told her, “You know, judge, if uh, if you’re going to make objections, can I rule on them?”

Maria Monroy (24:35):

No you didn’t. It’s so funny because you don’t give me that vibe at all. Like, you seem like so polite and, like, now you’re, now you’re — It’s probably also, like, age. Like you were young and, like, quicker to, like —

Przemek Lubecki (24:48):

Yeah, I was, I was pretty, pretty firey when it come, when it came to the judge overstepping their bounds because —

Maria Monroy (24:55):

But that’s amazing. I can’t believe you said —

Przemek Lubecki (24:57):

Well, the, the, the weird thing though is that even four years in, I had already tried so many cases that, to her, I was a young kid, still wet behind the ears. But what she didn’t know is that I had already tried probably forty cases or whatever at that point, right?

Maira Monroy (25:10):
Yeah.

Przemek Lubecki (25:11):

Um, and but that — She didn’t hold me in contempt for that. I think she admonished me maybe. Uh, you know, had the jury go back in the jury room, yelled at me, whatever else. And then, uh, we come back out, uh, into the jury, I mean into the courtroom. The jury’s back in the box at this point. And I’m going back into whatever the rest of my closing argument is, but before I say it, whatever I’m going to talk about, I say, “You know, ladies and gentlemen, they might be able to fool one person with this kind of stuff. Crap,” whatever I said pointing at the judge.

Maria Monroy (25:50):

No you didn’t.

Przemek Lubecki (25:51):

But they can’t fool the twelve of you . And so that was boom. That was —

Maria Monroy (25:53):

I mean you were also kind of pushing back.

Przemek Lubecki (25:55):

That was —No, I was, but like I said, I was never one to shy away from conflict.

Maria Monroy (25:56):

Yeah.

Przemek Lubecki (25:57):

And from honestly from zealously representing my client. It wasn’t necessarily a pissing match between me and the judge, although it kind of veered in that direction. But I was having fun. I was not as green as she thought I was. And so I was not afraid to push back. And I also knew that the firm would unquestionably have my back based on everything else that had, you know, transpired in the past.

Maria Monroy (26:25):

It’s funny, because I’m the same way in terms of conflict.

Przemek Lubecki (26:26):

Yeah.

Maria Monroy (26:27):

Like, it’s so hard for me to not engage.

Przemek Lubecki (26:28):

Yes.

Maria Monroy (26:29):

And I’ve gotten so much better at picking my fights as I’ve gotten older, but I’ve had to, like, literally work on it.

Przemek Lubecki (26:33):

Yes.

Maria Monroy (26:34):

Because anything could just get me, like, so fired up.

Przemek Lubecki (26:41):

Try meditation. That’s what I do now.

Maria Monroy (26:43):

Really? I do yoga nidra.

Przemek Lubecki (26:45):

Oh nice.

Maria Monroy (26:46):

Which is —

Przemek Lubecki (26:46):

I listen to Andrew Huberman,

Maria Monroy (26:47):

Oh my god!

Przemek Lubecki (26:48):

Sorry to interrupt you. But yeah,

Maria Monroy (26:49):

That’s how I know about it! I was going to say non-deep sleep, that.

Przemek Lubecki (26:50):

Yes.

Maria Monroy (26:51):

But nobody knows what that is.

Przemek Lubecki (26:53):

So I mean, he has free content on, like, YouTube. Yeah.

Maria Monroy (26:56):

Yeah. Oh, I’m, you probably don’t know this, but, like, I’m obsessed with Huberman. Like, I am going to manifest meeting him one day, and I have lots of questions for him.

Przemek Lubecki (27:04):

So I have, uh, I’m — What I like about him is he’s got that scientific —

Maria Monroy (27:06):

Yeah.

Przemek Lubecki (27:07):

Look to everything. And so, you know, he’s a visual science guy, ophthalmologist by trade or whatever.

Maria Monroy (27:08):

Yeah.

Przemek Lubecki (27:09):

And so what — a lot of the stuff that he talks about is not on point directly, but very relevant to the shooting sports and —

Maria Monroy (27:31):

Interesting.

Przemek Lubecki (27:32):

I think very relevant to, obviously, working out. ‘Cause he covers that in spades.

Maria Monroy (27:35):

Yes.

Przemek Lubecki (27:36):

But relevant to trial work, like cold exposure.

Maria Monroy (27:37):

Yep.

Przemek Lubecki (27:38):

I don’t know if you do any ice baths.

Maria Monroy (27:40):

So I’ve done an ice bath once before, and once we settle down wherever we’re going to live, or once we, like, figure out our lives, I’m going to buy a sauna and a cold plunge.

Przemek Lubecki (27:50):

Yes. Okay. You’re talking talking my language now.

Maria Monroy (27:51):

Yeah. So right now I’m doing the cold showers.

Przemek Lubecki (27:53):

Yes.

Maria Monroy (27:54):

And have you read his habit toolkit?

Przemek Lubecki (27:59):

I have not, but I mean I’ve listened to him enough where I think I know what you’re about to say.

Maria Monroy (28:02):

So no. Well I didn’t know this, ‘cause I’ve listened to him a ton, but the other day I was going through his toolkits. He has a habit one, and he says to start six habits at once. Um, and then he talks about what times you should try to do the habits. So I — And to shoot for four to six of those habits per day. So one of my new habits is, like, trying to get some sort of cold or hot exposure —

Przemek Lubecki (28:27):

Yeah.

Maria Monroy (28:28):

Once a day. So, and historically I, I do finish my, like, showers on cold, but now I’m doing where it’s, like, even just, like, no matter what, I’m going to do it and I’m doing sauna.

Przemek Lubecki (28:40):

Uh, one, I am in a weekly battle with my wife about letting me take out the jacuzzi tub that, in the eight years or whatever we’ve been in the house, she’s used maybe twice. And I’ve probably used it maybe twice. I want to rip it out and put in a cold plunge in the bathroom and then put a sauna in the garage. Well, once I build the garage to have a garage gym and a sauna.

Maria Monroy (29:08):

Yeah.

Przemek Lubecki (29:09):

And then to do that at night. I would — I just don’t have room for inside the house for a sauna. But, um, what you’re saying, like about the showers, it is, you know, there’s two reasons, for me anyway, to do cold exposure. One is your ability to control your own mind —

Maria Monroy (29:27):

Mm-hmm.

Przemek Lubecki (29:28):

And to sort of, with breath work, to be able to control your stress level and to bring it down. That, I don’t know that you necessarily need a super, super cold, cold plunge. And so in New Orleans, during the winter months when the temperatures are, let’s say in the forties, fifties —

Maria Monroy (29:42):

Well, here right now, the cold, cold showers are painful as hell.

Przemek Lubecki (29:47):

Yeah, I took a cold shower this morning in the hotel.

Maria Monroy (29:49):

Yeah. It’s cold.

Przemek Lubecki (29:50):

But it’s awesome. And according to Huberman, you only need to do it like two to three minutes a day for a total of, like, twelve minutes, uh, a week to get the efficacy of same as, you know, sitting in a cold plunge for an hour or whatever. B— before I started listening to Huberman, I went to a Tactical Games competition in Texas. And I’ll never forget it, ’cause I had — The Airbnb, whatever me and a bunch of the other competitors rented had a really nice tub adjoining the room where I was staying. And so I got bags of ice and after, like a, a day one or day two of the competition, I filled up the tub with ice, filled it up with cold water and I thought, “Man, this is going to be awesome, ‘cause I’m going to be recovered like a beast for the next day.” And so eight, nine o’clock at night, whatever, I was trying to go to bed early. I got in the ice tub, I sat in it for, I don’t know, about maybe twenty, twenty-five minutes. I got out thinking, “This is going to be great for my joints, great for my inflammation. I’m going to have no muscle soreness the next day.” And all that happened is I could not get to sleep.

Maria Monroy (30:56):

Yeah.

Przemek Lubecki (30:57):

I shivered, I literally shivered under blankets all night long.

Maria Monroy (31:00):

You’re not supposed to ever do cold at night.

Przemek Lubecki (31:02):

Yeah.

Maria Monroy (31:03):

But you can do hot.

Przemek Lubecki (31:04):

Yeah. Hot. I mean, a sauna makes me sleep like a baby. It’s, it’s awesome.

Maria Monroy (31:09):

It’s like the whole thing of, like, you take a warm shower and then, like —

Przemek Lubecki (31:11):

Mm-hmm.

Maria Monroy (31:12):

You’re like, “Oh, I feel like I, like, slept better.” But you’re like, “Oh, there’s no way. That’s so stupid.”

Przemek Lubecki (31:15):

Yeah.

Maria Monroy (31:16):

And it, like, you think it’s all in your head. And I’m like, “Oh, wow. That was not in my head.” So I emailed Huberman to see if he would speak at a legal conference and they told me to go eff myself. I’m not kidding. I mean —

Przemek Lubecki (31:29):

That’s awesome.

Maria Monroy (31:30):

The conference, it, it’s Law-Di-Gras. Law-Di-Gras was like, “Yeah, go ahead email them. Let’s see if we can get him.”

Przemek Lubecki (31:33):

Uh-huh.

Maria Monroy (31:34):

It was, like, our dream, right? Or their dream. Like, we were like, “We want this person.”

Przemek Lubecki (31:38):

Like, your dream and maybe my dream alone. I don’t know that anybody else would.

Maria Monroy (31:42):

No, no, they did. They did. Because they want to also have, like, a health focus.

Przemek Lubecki (31:45):

Oh, okay.

Maria Monroy (31:46):

So Bob Simon was like, in the email, he was like, “This would be the dream,” or something. I don’t know how he phrased it. And I was like, “Well, it’s definitely my dream.”

Przemek Lubecki (31:54):

Yeah. I do think that lawyers in general are terrible about taking care of themselves and having longevity.

Maria Monroy (32:01):

Oh, absolutely. I mean, I, my biggest thing is sleep.

Przemek Lubecki (32:04):

Okay.

Maria Monroy (32:05):

So sleep is like — I get eight hours on average, and I’m, like, religious about it.

Przemek Lubecki (32:11):

I hate you.

Maria Monroy (32:11):

Yeah. But it’s like a — I mean, I put a lot of work into it. Like, I get the kids to bed, and I’m like, I listen to Huberman, and I fall asleep listening to Huberman.

Przemek Lubecki (32:21):

So my — as far as putting kids to bed, my problem is that if I’m putting them down, they will always want me to lay down with them for a little bit, right?

Maria Monroy (32:29):

Oh, I don’t mean I, I do it. I just mean it’s bedtime. Like they go off to bed.

Przemek Lubecki (32:34):

Oh, got it, got it. And then, okay.

Maria Monroy (32:35):

Although my husband will lay with my daughter.

Przemek Lubecki (32:37):

So I have, you know, I have a, a five-year-old, a seven-year-old, and almost three-year-old. And so if I put them down, you know, I’m in a cold room, dark room with them.

Maria Monroy (32:45):

You fall asleep no?

Przemek Lubecki (32:46):

I will lay down with them, and I will fall asleep.

Maria Monroy (32:48):

Yeah. That used to happen to me.

Przemek Lubecki (32:49):

And it kills my sleep drive. So then I can get up, I go back downstairs and then all of a sudden I’m —

Maria Monroy (32:52):

You’re awake.

Przemek Lubecki (32:53):

I’m no longer sleepy. I’m, I’m wide awake, and then I do go to bed, and then I have trouble falling asleep.

Maria Monroy (33:02):

Um, yeah, no, you can’t do that.

Przemek Lubecki (33:03):

Yeah. But I think like, like a lot of people, you know, I have less trouble falling asleep than I do staying asleep. Thoughts, intrusive thoughts at night that wake you up. So I think for me, it varies on my stress load. I think if I have deadlines or crap I didn’t finish or accomplish during the day that needs to be finished, I will go to bed fine. But at 2:30, 3 o’clock in the morning I will wake up thinking about that stupid shit that I would —

Maria Monroy (33:31):

So do yoga nidra.

Przemek Lubecki (33:32):

Okay.

Maria Monroy (33:33):

That’s what he, that’s what Huberman —

Przemek Lubecki (33:34):

Oh, to fall back asleep, you’re saying.

Maria Monroy (33:34):

That’s what Huberman does himself. I don’t have that issue. It happens to me every now and then, but it’s rare. And every time I’m like, “Next time, I’m going to do yoga nidra.” ‘Cause I just, if it happens to me, I just don’t go back to sleep ’til, like, six.

Przemek Lubecki (33:45):

Okay.

Maria Monroy (33:46):

And then I wake up at seven. So it’s like — But he says that what he does, because that was a big issue for him —

Przemek Lubecki (33:50):

Mm-hmm.

Maria Monroy (33:51):

Is he does yoga nidra.

Przemek Lubecki (33:52):

Okay. See, I guess I need to do that. I don’t want to expose myself to, uh, blue light at night. And it’s, like, the yoga nidra — Your scripts are on YouTube.

Maria Monroy (33:59):

I know. But thank you so much for coming on. This was fun.

Przemek Lubecki (34:02):

It was a ton of fun. Yes. Thanks for having me.

Maria Monroy (34:05):

No, I appreciate it. Thank you so much to Przemek Lubecki for everything he shared today. If you found the story valuable, please share it with someone you want to see succeed, and subscribe so you never miss an episode.